Recent global headlines have sparked concerns over potential armed conflicts, leading many to wonder: is anywhere truly safe?

According to investigative journalist and author Annie Jacobsen, the answer is yes—though not in the way most might think. In the event of nuclear war, Jacobsen points to two unlikely safe havens: New Zealand and Australia.

Speaking on The Diary of a CEO podcast with Steven Bartlett, Jacobsen explained that these countries in the Southern Hemisphere could be the only regions capable of sustaining agriculture after a nuclear catastrophe.

“Places like Iowa and Ukraine would be just snow for 10 years,” she said. “So agriculture would fail, and when agriculture fails, people just die.”

She also warned of radiation poisoning and the destruction of the ozone layer, which would make sunlight deadly and force survivors to live underground in most of the world.

Jacobsen referred to research by Professor Owen Toon published in Nature Food, noting his updated nuclear winter model. His findings estimate that five billion people could die due to food shortages caused by nuclear fallout.

With Earth’s population nearing eight billion, that would leave just three billion survivors. Bartlett asked where one could go to be among them.

Jacobsen replied without hesitation: “New Zealand and Australia.”

Their distance from major nuclear powers like the U.S. and Russia, along with their agricultural potential, make them uniquely suited to endure such a disaster.

While the thought is sobering, it’s a reminder that preparation and geography could play key roles in future global crises.